UA-105331088-1 Aligning OKRs to the Customer Lifecycle - Success (5 of 6) - Radical Execution

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Aligning OKRs to the Customer Lifecycle - Success (5 of 6)

In this podcasts, we'll be discussing how to align expectations with customers, help them realize value being proactive and educating them.

Transcript
KJ:

In this podcasts, we'll be discussing how to align

KJ:

expectations with customers, help them realize value being

KJ:

proactive and educating them. And.

KJ:

All right, all right. I'll read

Stephen Newman:

those energy levels up. Yep. You do your push

Stephen Newman:

ups, jumping jacks. callisthenics. Yeah. Yeah. So

Stephen Newman:

we've been talking about the customer lifecycle, customer

Stephen Newman:

journey, why the the, the mapping of the experience of

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customers and the journey they go on, and how visualizing

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strategy based on those different phases can be a more

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contextual way to align your business and execute strategy.

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And so we started with customer awareness, getting people into

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the department store to use our analogy, then we went into

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engagement, how you treat people, when you are in the

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store, then going into customer acquisition, that point of

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purchase and what that experience looks like. And now

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it's at the stage of customer success. Now, customer success

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is of more formalized function within business. There's

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dedicated teams as to CS, we've, we know of a lot of people in

Stephen Newman:

CS, I've never had a CS job, neither of you, but you've

Stephen Newman:

worked with a lot of customers. But in my mind, from sort of the

Stephen Newman:

outside looking in, it's making customers happy and successful

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using your products. And it's not just, Hey, thanks for the

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check. Good luck to you. There is an actual strategy behind

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getting customers successful. And OKRs are critical to that

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because you can measure sentiment and feedback and

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satisfaction and retention and all that fun stuff. And these

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are really critical metrics, especially within b2b SaaS, if

Stephen Newman:

you don't have a happy, renewing customer base, you don't have

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much of anything. So bringing this to the forefront for CES is

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important. So that's a long winded way of saying, when it

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comes to customer success, after the point of sale, what are some

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of the most important things to look out for? What are some of

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the things to avoid? What are the things that you can do?

Stephen Newman:

Right? What are the things that happened internally that caused

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problems, I'm just really thrown out of really big catch all

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questions, so that you can grab one of these pieces of it and

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run with it. But that's kind of my perspective of the this

Stephen Newman:

particular stage of the customer experience. And we'd love to

Stephen Newman:

hear yours. Yeah.

KJ:

Well, you've summarized that, actually quite well,

KJ:

there. This stage has become very popular as a discussion

KJ:

point, because it's the most important stage for value

KJ:

realization. And that's what people are arguing and b2b SaaS

KJ:

nowadays is that this is actually more critical than any

KJ:

other phase, because this is the phase where people realize the

KJ:

value of your product. And so if they don't realize the value of

KJ:

your product, you lose them. As simple as that. That's it. So

KJ:

customers came to you for a reason to buy. You got them

KJ:

aware of that reason, you engage them, you acquired them by

KJ:

probably highlighting that they have this discomfort and that

KJ:

they should buy your solution to solve this discomfort. And now

KJ:

is the moment when they need to realize that they bought this

KJ:

product and service so that it would sell the problem. Now is

KJ:

the point where you solve the problem. And they go, Aha, well,

KJ:

fantastic. Whatever you're gonna be want to call Eureka. This

KJ:

this is the moment. This is the stage where it

Stephen Newman:

happens. Big, big missed opportunity there.

Stephen Newman:

It's not say brilliant, brilliant, you're again this

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guy.

KJ:

Yeah. Brilliant, brilliant pints.

Stephen Newman:

Already draw the line. So where do you draw the

Stephen Newman:

line between making customers happy and successful and solving

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their problems and in mitigating that discomfort, reducing it and

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getting a customer that dumps all of their problems on you, in

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expects you to solve them? How do you tell them? Hey, sorry,

Stephen Newman:

Mr. Customer, I'm not here. I'm not your therapist. You need to

Stephen Newman:

go solve that problem with some Buy yachts.

KJ:

Great question. That's the number one problem in this stage

KJ:

of the customer lifecycle, misaligned expectations,

KJ:

unequivocally happens. It's happened to you listener, it has

KJ:

happened to you, I guarantee you throughout your career it has

KJ:

happened where the, there has been a moment where things were

KJ:

misaligned between both parties, you and your, your counterpart.

KJ:

So, yeah, well, I just like to maybe take a quick step back and

KJ:

say that there's two teams that drive that are the force that

KJ:

drives customer success, the first team is onboarding. And

KJ:

the second team are the actual success team. So, or the support

KJ:

team, maybe you call them, and maybe those teams aren't divided

KJ:

out, maybe some companies just have one individual that do

KJ:

both. But there are two, let's call them two separate

KJ:

responsibilities, onboarding, and customer support,

KJ:

onboarding, their primary, their primary responsibility, and

KJ:

priority is to get the customer to realize value as quickly as

KJ:

possible. The support person is primary focus is to actually

KJ:

ensure the long term success of the customer to the point of

KJ:

renewal. So they're, they're operating the same, you know,

KJ:

vicinity, but two very distinct responsibilities. And that's why

KJ:

people get specialized in one area or the other. Because

KJ:

they're both very important, that onboarding person has to

KJ:

get some realisation of value for the customer. And that

KJ:

person is typically coming back to what you said, the person

KJ:

that deals with the moment the contract is signed, the

KJ:

customers acquired. It's onboarding. And that's when

KJ:

expectations need to be aligned, needs to be set. And people

KJ:

often do this with a project plan or project management

KJ:

system. They sit down, they have a, quote, kickoff call, and they

KJ:

say, great, you're a customer, congratulations, we can't wait

KJ:

to partner with you. Let's set expectations, we're not going to

KJ:

be therapists, we're not going to do this, we're not going to

KJ:

do that we're going to do this. This is our responsibility. This

KJ:

is yours. You have things like RACI tables, you know, describes

KJ:

who's accountable for what who's contributing tool. So that's

KJ:

really a critical point of this entire journey of what the

KJ:

problem is, it gets misaligned. Okay. Why does it get

KJ:

misaligned? Because people feel as if it's this transitional,

KJ:

you're running a relay race, and the sales guy hands the baton to

KJ:

the next guy, and then they run off with us. And sometimes they

KJ:

drop us. Well, yeah, let's scrap that analogy. It should be it

KJ:

should not be transitional, but the way you can improve your

KJ:

business is by mitigating that, that gap of transition. Any

KJ:

breath.

Stephen Newman:

I mean, that was an impressive, impressive run,

Stephen Newman:

he just seems like he just ran your relay race, and you just

Stephen Newman:

transition the baton to me, and now it's my turn to run. So I'll

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do my best. It sounds like and I would agree with you. It's often

Stephen Newman:

once customers have seen this so much in my career, that the it's

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almost like when the customer is acquired, the job is done.

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That's kind of the sense. And and then once from there, it's

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what's the bare minimum that we can do to keep these people

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around and not pissed off. And to create an environment where

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that's not the case, it's got to be a holistic environment where

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the customer is at the center, and the there's all these

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different parts that are supporting the customer. So I

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think customers support I think the help desk like hey, my

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things broke, and who would I call, right? And that's a

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function of it. Onboarding is a function. But the long term

Stephen Newman:

success is driven from the holistic experience from that.

Stephen Newman:

And if you have somebody that's really dedicated towards your

Stephen Newman:

success, then you can get a lot more value out of the product. I

Stephen Newman:

mean, we have a lot of SaaS products that we use internally.

Stephen Newman:

And I've purchased a lot of SaaS products. And there's, it's

Stephen Newman:

happened a few times where I don't hear anything from anybody

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until about a month out from renewal. And that's a great

Stephen Newman:

disservice as a customer because there's probably a lot of things

Stephen Newman:

that I'm not aware of that I can be doing with your products that

Stephen Newman:

I'm not taking advantage of, there's relationships that can

Stephen Newman:

be built that I'm not building, I was a customer of one product,

Stephen Newman:

and I won't mention who it is, but I had like six different

Stephen Newman:

account managers within a year. Like, like that was the

Stephen Newman:

communication was, hey, just got a new account manager. And it

Stephen Newman:

was a, it was a really bizarre experience. What you're

Stephen Newman:

describing, though, is it's not a linear journey. It is a it is

Stephen Newman:

it needs to be focused on the customer, it needs to be focused

Stephen Newman:

on value creation, sustainable value creation, and oftentimes,

Stephen Newman:

and SaaS that is secondary to just acquiring the customer.

Stephen Newman:

When in fact, the reason why SAS business models are so popular,

Stephen Newman:

it's all on the premise of the recurring subscription. Yeah, if

Stephen Newman:

you don't have the recurring subscription, you just have a

Stephen Newman:

cash generator, right? You have a service,

KJ:

basically. So Well, that's exactly it, the people

KJ:

prioritize, well, we need to grow. Therefore, we need to make

KJ:

more sales, therefore focus on just getting the sale. But no

KJ:

deal is better than a bad deal. And you're going to you, you

KJ:

ignore that at your peril. Because you'll sign up customers

KJ:

huge rate, and lose them at a huge rate. For that exact what

KJ:

you just said, You're not not thinking about providing them

KJ:

value. And that's why it's become so popular for other

KJ:

podcasters and people in SAS to talk about customer renew, and

KJ:

customer onboarding and customer experience, all this sort of

KJ:

stuff, because that's what the renewals you know, have a

KJ:

business model that you can, you can sustain. But you've hit on a

KJ:

really good point with the renewals, because that was the

KJ:

second biggest problem I thought about at this stage of the

KJ:

customer lifecycle is what an ignorant signal to send from

KJ:

your, from your company to another to say, we haven't

KJ:

spoken to you and since you bought this thing, but hey, we

KJ:

need you to upsell, we need you, we need you to pay us more

KJ:

money. How ignorant is that? We wouldn't do that to a friend or

KJ:

you know your partner. I mean, it's it's ridiculous. So yeah, I

KJ:

mean, what people need to realize is that without the

KJ:

customer realizing their return on investment, only then may you

KJ:

discuss a upsell or renewal. I haven't realized any value from

KJ:

your product yet. How dare you? How dare you go and ask them for

KJ:

more?

Stephen Newman:

Right? You haven't paid the relationship

Stephen Newman:

rent, relational rent, right? You haven't made it a boss?

Stephen Newman:

Yeah. So it's like we were talking about before you get to

Stephen Newman:

the two columns you have? Did they? Did they add value to the

Stephen Newman:

point of the price of purchase? If if the value exceeds the

Stephen Newman:

price point, you'll you'll get a customer? If the same thing when

Stephen Newman:

you go to renew that customer and we'll get into loyalty and

Stephen Newman:

how to do you know, retention and all that we'll do that

Stephen Newman:

tomorrow on the next step. So but the same thing here, it's

Stephen Newman:

like if you have a if you have a one month, not every company,

Stephen Newman:

every SAS company does annual recurring, sometimes it's

Stephen Newman:

monthly recurring. Sometimes it's self service, right. But

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you will you do an equation in your head very quickly. Did the

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value I get within the timeframe in which I signed up for exceed

Stephen Newman:

the price that I'm paying? And if the answer is yes, you stay

Stephen Newman:

on board as a customer? If the answer is no, you readjust your

Stephen Newman:

subscription, you downsize or you just you just churn. And if

Stephen Newman:

you're doing a long term annual recurring revenue, obviously,

Stephen Newman:

there's a lot more money paid up front, there, there needs to be

Stephen Newman:

a sustainable consistent exchange of value, not even

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really in exchange for you have to provide value, not only with

Stephen Newman:

your product, but also with your services. So that when you have

Stephen Newman:

the you know, the renewal comes around, somebody is doing the

Stephen Newman:

math and saying, well, either like this is really working out

Stephen Newman:

well for us. And let's remove it's a no brainer. Just give me

Stephen Newman:

the contract or a yes, we sign up for a bag of shit here. And

Stephen Newman:

we need to restructure this. I've seen it happen a lot. I

Stephen Newman:

think the main thing to take away though, is it's always that

Stephen Newman:

that equation happens very quickly. And yes, it's based on

Stephen Newman:

a feeling it's based on. That's not it can't be ROI. But that's

Stephen Newman:

I mean, who really knows the ROI of anything these days, right

Stephen Newman:

Really, it's more, it's more based on the relationship and

Stephen Newman:

just that the feeling of value. And because I mean, we have a,

Stephen Newman:

as an example, we pay a monthly subscription to deliver

Stephen Newman:

contracts, and we pay a little bit of money right now. It's not

Stephen Newman:

a lot of money. But even though it's not a lot of money, we

Stephen Newman:

still, after one cycle said, Hey, we can cut this in half and

Stephen Newman:

save a few bucks. Because it just the value is not there.

Stephen Newman:

We're using it like, you know, a handful of times a month. But

Stephen Newman:

anyway, that's, that's the value equation when it comes to this.

KJ:

Yeah, totally. But you've done it nicely, where you've

KJ:

shared the value equation and how it relates to the

KJ:

relationship and the relationship, we could talk

KJ:

about that as well. We talked about this throughout the

KJ:

entire, so one of those ubiquitous topics that flow

KJ:

through the customer lifecycle, well, the customer life cycles,

KJ:

the hint is in the title, it's about the customer, which is

KJ:

about people and people are about building relationships,

KJ:

and in a relationship. You know, this is the moment where people

KJ:

are excited to finally tie the knot, use a wedding analogy,

KJ:

they've decided to marry you, you know, they've decided to

KJ:

partner with you, at least for a year. You know, and they, they

KJ:

want to realize value, and you need to, you know, start this,

KJ:

this is the first step in building a relationship with

KJ:

someone. And in the first step, you need to keep your promises,

KJ:

you need to get aligned on what, how it's the relationship is

KJ:

going to operate. Like the valves, like the virus, very

KJ:

much like the virus,

Stephen Newman:

unfortunately. Well, I would say fortunately,

Stephen Newman:

SAS companies have a better chance of renewal than weddings.

Stephen Newman:

Because you know, 5050, everyone, or every marriage 5050

Stephen Newman:

is going to

KJ:

rise. Yeah, terrible statistic in the States. Yeah.

KJ:

But, but yeah, I mean, it's probably the ideal analogy, but

KJ:

it works, you know, its relationship. And so this needs

KJ:

to be a primary focus, I'm OKR is can help but because OKR is

KJ:

give the shared language, that Anna gives this, the structure

KJ:

that you need with a partner, like a new customer, you need to

KJ:

have a clear objective with the partner, well, okay, ours, first

KJ:

thing you do is set an objective, and make it

KJ:

inspirational, you know, make it something that you jointly would

KJ:

like to get, you know, you know, you'd like, you would like to

KJ:

have a customer that pays you lots of money in an incredible

KJ:

incremental amount of money every year. And the customer

KJ:

wants to have a partner provider that cares about them, and that

KJ:

provides them value. So maybe that's a great objective to

KJ:

start with. And then go into your key results, you know, it

KJ:

gives that framework for this phase. And it's very important.

Stephen Newman:

Yeah, and I think that I was going to

Stephen Newman:

transition into some OKR talk, but you did it nicely, and beat

Stephen Newman:

me to it. And I think the value here though, with OKRs, as it

Stephen Newman:

relates to customer success is, as a marketer, I can tell you

Stephen Newman:

that the vast majority of my time is spent on customer

Stephen Newman:

acquisition, just broadcasting a big message, getting word out

Stephen Newman:

there, build new channels, bringing in qualified leads,

Stephen Newman:

building pipeline, working with sales, to get all these

Stephen Newman:

customers across the finish line. And it's happened a lot in

Stephen Newman:

my career to where it's an effort once they've gotten

Stephen Newman:

across the finish line, it's on to the next one, right. And it's

Stephen Newman:

almost counterintuitive to say you should split your time

Stephen Newman:

because you might be missing out on things on the top of the

Stephen Newman:

funnel, but you can get a lot more value, talking to

Stephen Newman:

customers, getting quotes, getting case studies, having a

Stephen Newman:

consistent production of those materials out to the market, you

Stephen Newman:

can get a lot of value out of that. And it's often de

Stephen Newman:

prioritized. And I think it's a big missed opportunity. So when

Stephen Newman:

you're creating OKRs and you can Your Head of Customer Success is

Stephen Newman:

saying, Hey, I got this problem with churn for example. Well,

Stephen Newman:

that's more of a product question or product statement

Stephen Newman:

like well, okay, we've got a problem. We have a problem

Stephen Newman:

problem with churn. Why? Well, the technology is lacking. Okay,

Stephen Newman:

well, instead of, let's shift a roadmap, right, to solve that

Stephen Newman:

problem, or we have, we have all these unbelievably happy

Stephen Newman:

customers. And marketing's not even doing anything about it.

Stephen Newman:

Why can't we create a coalition or advisory group that's all

Stephen Newman:

about happy customers to build our long term value? Like, these

Stephen Newman:

are often like, secondary? Not even thoughts

KJ:

really are. Totally, yeah, maybe you've hit on the third

KJ:

problem, which is a lack of proactive engagement. You know,

KJ:

from all departments, all teams throughout the company, you

KJ:

know, there should be a, they're all reactive to Oh, shit, we're

KJ:

gonna pull out a fire at this customer, because they didn't,

KJ:

you know, they didn't get their feature on time or something,

KJ:

whether what you're saying is, take a proactive approach,

KJ:

let's, let's proactively talk about the customer in this

KJ:

particular vertical. And let's incorporate a cross departmental

KJ:

collaboration with people from marketing people from

KJ:

engineering people who can have other ideas and how to solve it,

KJ:

and, and use OKRs to them formulate something a plan of

KJ:

action.

Stephen Newman:

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's the siloed nature in

Stephen Newman:

which companies operate, it's, it becomes a big finger pointing

Stephen Newman:

game, where it's like, well, that's not my problem, it's your

Stephen Newman:

problem. Whereas if everybody's kind of looking at everything

Stephen Newman:

through the lens of the customer, and making sure that

Stephen Newman:

they're happy. And yeah, there's a lot of interesting ways. I

Stephen Newman:

mean, if I could fast forward a few years, and we've got tons

Stephen Newman:

and tons of customers, we do lead scoring and marketing,

Stephen Newman:

where we look at all your activities and how you've

Stephen Newman:

engaged with content. And we can give you a score based on your

Stephen Newman:

segmentation. And we can see which leads are the top of the

Stephen Newman:

list. And based on all these sorts of scoring algorithms, I'm

Stephen Newman:

sure it exists with customers as well, I haven't really seen it

Stephen Newman:

that much. But I would love to know, based on some sort of

Stephen Newman:

rubric, how we can score and understand whether a customer is

Stephen Newman:

happy way in advance of the subscription renewal. I mean,

Stephen Newman:

that's the most important part. It's like, you're the point of

Stephen Newman:

signature is the the epitome and the highest the highest point

Stephen Newman:

you'll ever be. Most likely, it's usually downhill from

Stephen Newman:

there. But you know, a lot of cases it's not, it can be a

Stephen Newman:

better relationship that has long term value. But anyway,

Stephen Newman:

it's about visibility and bringing that to the forefront

Stephen Newman:

being proactive and not waiting till they say we're not going to

Stephen Newman:

assign to try to solve problems, it's no different with

Stephen Newman:

employees. Yeah, you got to be able to retain you have to

Stephen Newman:

consistently engage your employees and correct by them

Stephen Newman:

value. And so they because they the job market, now you can go

Stephen Newman:

work pretty much wherever you want. And you don't want to try

Stephen Newman:

to rectify a pissed off employee at the last second, the damage

Stephen Newman:

is already done. So

KJ:

you're right, you're right. And that's probably the last

KJ:

thing you know, it's we talked big one is misaligned

KJ:

expectations, now keeping promises, then asking for money

KJ:

when you don't deserve it, and being reactive to these

KJ:

customers. But maybe the last one is exactly that, you know,

KJ:

the point of this site, or this stage in the cycle is to realize

KJ:

value. And the only way you're gonna get there is through

KJ:

education, you know, you got to train an employee, you got to

KJ:

train your customers, you got to really prioritize that.

KJ:

Prioritize being proactive, and prioritize that in a proactive

KJ:

way, educate the customer. You know, whatever they need to

KJ:

learn about your products, whenever they need to learn

KJ:

about the methodology behind your product, be proactive in

KJ:

that it's the first thing we do, we say, Hey, you're not getting

KJ:

into this product and clicking every single button without

KJ:

knowing the OKR framework, knowing the pitfalls, no one,

KJ:

you know how to operate them correctly, how to communicate

KJ:

them correctly, you know, can't get in the car without, you

KJ:

know, learning doing the written test. So yeah, training, lack of

KJ:

training is another one in this phase of the cycle that gets

KJ:

overlooked.

Stephen Newman:

Oh, yeah, I mean, there's the training parts

Stephen Newman:

huge. And I know like the next podcast we'll be talking about

Stephen Newman:

customer loyalty and getting into all the different touch

Stephen Newman:

points in how you can deliver value that all the different

Stephen Newman:

touchpoints whether it's through your product or training or

Stephen Newman:

services, but it's the car analogy is great because you can

Stephen Newman:

do the written test. I don't know how you learned how to

Stephen Newman:

drive but like my my old man took me out into the high school

Stephen Newman:

parking lot. Like every weekend for like a year. for like a

Stephen Newman:

year. I was I would drive all throughout the parking lot. I

Stephen Newman:

thought I was gonna be like Dale Earnhardt when I got behind the

Stephen Newman:

wheel. I don't know if you know who that is, but I don't

KJ:

Yeah, as like a good driver

Stephen Newman:

for this he passed away like 20 years ago,

Stephen Newman:

but he was. He was a NASCAR driver. He was he was awesome.

Stephen Newman:

But anyway, I but my dad took me every weekend and I learned how

Stephen Newman:

to drive. I learned how to parallel park, I learned how to

Stephen Newman:

your head on swivel, and I learned a lesson and knock on

Stephen Newman:

wood. I've never been an indirect that was my fault. I've

Stephen Newman:

been driving for 22 years, I've only been in two wrecks, or

Stephen Newman:

somebody smashed me but I was very, very well trained. So when

Stephen Newman:

it came time for me to get out on the road, I knew what the

Stephen Newman:

hell I was doing. Yeah, exactly. And living down here in Florida.

Stephen Newman:

I wish everybody had taken that driving training the way I did

Stephen Newman:

shitty drivers down here.

KJ:

Send them an excellent, it's an investment and it's worth it.

KJ:

You know, it's worth it. So yeah, definitely. I did learn

KJ:

the same way my mom would take me in car parks and stuff. She

KJ:

was the typical mom like hanging on to the side of the car like,

KJ:

so it was going like 20 kilometers. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephen Newman:

I was good. It's good stuff. I think to kind of

Stephen Newman:

summarize it. Yeah, we see the value in there's obviously an

Stephen Newman:

immense amount of value in customer success. We talked more

Stephen Newman:

theory than OKRs and like ways to measure customer success,

Stephen Newman:

like, you know, there's customer engagement or satisfaction,

Stephen Newman:

there's different touchpoints there's onboarding

Stephen Newman:

implementations at

KJ:

the time, time to onboard trying to achieve the milestones

KJ:

in the project. There's always time to value you know, number

KJ:

customer interactions, you know, there's there's a ton of them

Stephen Newman:

support tickets time to resolve sort of support

Stephen Newman:

ticket always measurements, let's Yeah, and there's the

Stephen Newman:

combination of volume, quality and in health in the health one,

Stephen Newman:

it's more important. It's the most important when it comes to

Stephen Newman:

this stuff. It's like, you got to have a healthy happy

Stephen Newman:

customer. And yeah, and there's a lot of ways to do that. And

Stephen Newman:

there's a lot of key results and objectives that can be created

Stephen Newman:

to really deliver an exceptional customer experience. So it's

Stephen Newman:

been a good topic. For the next podcast, we'll be talking a lot

Stephen Newman:

about the customer loyalty phase and how to create the advocate

Stephen Newman:

for your brand and for your products and, and what that can

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